Well, I'm very happy to welcome Marjan Sax today. Marjan is from the Netherlands and I'd love it, Marjan, if you would begin by saying what you're doing these days and what led you to what you're doing now and then we'll go on and talk a little more about women's health. What I'm doing these days is a mix. I'm a philanthropic adviser, so I advise people, but also foundations, how they strategically can use their money in changing the world, in making the world a better place. And I also do some fundraising for some organizations that I find important, that fit my values. And I work in a number of organizations as an activist and I think my biggest passionate or passion, I don't know if that's the right word, this thing that makes me the most, that moves me the most is the situation of refugees. And I think in Europe at this moment the refugee issue with the migration issue is the biggest issue that European countries are struggling with. In your work with refugees are you focusing specifically on women? Well, yes and no. I'm part of an organization called Women Against Deportation and it started about 15 years ago to make clear that when you talk about refugees, you talk about men and women, and that women do not have the same situation and not also the same, not the same things happen to them as with male refugees. And to draw attention to the fact that women very often have to do with things that have to do with sexual violence, that in war situations, they're often raped or sexually harassed and that it is a topic that they find very difficult to talk about. So that very often it does not come into the open because they are very shy to talk about it and can only talk about it in a situation where they feel safe. Is your concern with refugees coming into Europe in general and where are they coming from? What are the countries? Be specific, I'd be really interested to know. Yeah, many refugees come from Afghanistan, Iraq, at this moment, Sudan, Somalia, and in the past also Iran and Ethiopia, Eritrea. And the refugees I have the most at this moment that I'm involved with the most come from Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia. But they come from everywhere and they have a very hard time because actually Europe is trying to, or not trying, Europe is shutting out, trying to keep everybody out. That's basically what's happening. So people who come and who ask for asylum, which is a right that also the Netherlands and many countries have signed that people are in danger should have the right to come and get a safe haven, they are actually addressed as if they're lying all the time, as if we're making up the stories, we don't believe you. And so in the interviews that they have with immigration service they are usually treated very, very badly as, yeah, as liars. And it means that there's a very humiliating kind of atmosphere for people who have very often gone through terrible things. First, why they fled and then during their journey to a safe place, they've also had hardships and well, terrible things happening. And then they finally come where they think that they will be safe, and then they're treated as a shit. And it's something that I find very difficult to live with and I think we should also as citizens open our mouth and protest against that and try to change it. I think there are lots of people who at this moment are aware that there is something really terrible happening with the migration issue and with refugees. I don't think that many people at this moment in a country like the Netherlands speak up. Activism is not very, people are not very active. People are rather passive or they'll maybe sign a petition on the internet but that's about it. But there is, I think, especially the young people are getting more and more active. With the group of refugees that I am involved with there is a lot of solidarity and because it's a group of people, I have to explain this a little bit, who have gone through the whole procedure of trying to get asylum, who have been denied that asylum and who cannot go back. Most of the time they have no papers and because most people come when they flee, they very often don't have time to get papers and most people in the world don't have identity papers. I think 3/4 of the world population does not have their own passport. And so they come with an agent or with a smuggler. They pay and they get with false papers. The agent looks at you and says, "Well, I have here these two passports. This one looks a little bit like you. They don't see the difference anyway, all these black faces, so this one will be fine.". And then they come and,for example, the women very often come as wife of the smuggler. And then when they are in Holland and they go well, they are in and then they go with the smuggler to a supermarket or to a station. And then the man says, "Well, I'll be back, just sit down," and then he just disappears and then they're left without papers and without papers you cannot get asylum. And the thing is that the people, the immigration policy is very strict about that, that they actually don't listen very much what story you have to tell. They just think very bureaucratically, "Oh, you have no papers." So these people are denied their asylum but that they cannot go back because without papers you cannot go back, for example, to Eritrea or to Ethiopia. And or in Eritrea if you do, you're being incarcerated right away and if not worse. And because they think that people who fled are traitors and should be punished. Ethiopia does not let people in. And so they are, the can't go back and then what? They're left in the street. What kind of numbers are we talking about? Well, we don't know because they're illegal. Yeah. And illegal people are very difficult to count. And we think we're talking now in only Holland. We're talking, Holland has a very reduced amount of refugees because we have such strict asylum policies that only about 10,000 per year are now at this moment, these last years asking asylum. So, we're actually talking about hardly any. It's just numbers that are ridiculous. And I think all together there are estimates about 100,000 people maybe altogether who are now without papers and yeah, who don't know where to go. As you think of students around the world who may be watching this and taking this course on International Women's Health and Human Rights, what general advice do you have for them? Well, I think when I see around me that many young people are very active and very concerned about what's happening in the world and I think for me the most important thing is for everybody, is that you open your mouth for, when you see injustice. At least open your mouth and protest and do something against it or try to. And do that together, you cannot do it by yourself. It's a collective activity. And it's also, I have to say, it's very much fun to be an activist. There's always a lot happening and you make good friends and you do things together and you build on a positive thing, you build another world. So, it's always been a big pleasure to be an activist, even though there are of course also things happening that are not so much fun. And there's also discussion and sometimes fighting but it's basically a fun life. Okay. It reinforces our sense of hope I think for a positive future. Thanks so much.
