[MUSIC] I'm here with Huib van Bockel, who is a freelance consultant now. But he was formally with Unilever, MTV and also the European Marketing Director of Red Bull. And we met in one of our executive seminars, and you surprised me by sending me this book, which now has a quote for me on top, The Social Brand. And one of the contents I really like about this book. And I think it fits the philosophy of this book quite well, is the idea of a brand bank account which has deposits and withdrawals, very much like the debits and credits you might have in a regular accounting statement. >> Mm-hm. >> How did you come up with this, and what are the two sides? The debits and credits in your model. >> So how I came up with is a bit of a long story, but I was reading the art of loving, it's a book on love by Eric Fromm. And eh says in this book, he says that wrong question, we ask ourselves the wrong question when it comes to love. So we ask ourselves, how can I make people love me more, as opposed to, how can I develop my own ability to love? He says that should be the right question. I was reading that, and I though, my God, that's exactly the same as what we do in the board room, right? We're constantly asking how can we make people love us more? Basically every ad out there is basically begging us to love them more. Like my new car, like this new product. And if we could turn that around and say how can we do more for the people that are important to us? That would be a major step change in the way we do business. And also really a much better way to build loyalty, to actually do something for the people that are important to you. And then, I said, a thought on that basis, how can you kind of measure or kind of inspire people to do more as opposed to take. And then I came up with the philosophy of brand bank accounting. Make sure to give more than you actually take. And you know the giving can be anything from a great piece of content, a nice event, a great nice branded shop, or anything that you can give something of true value. As opposed to the taking side of things, like the withdrawals. Which are kind of effectively the old school advertising, you could say. Like pop-ups or even advertising. Where they're effectively interrupting what you're doing. >> And what's your experience in terms of, what does it take to actually make more deposits? What does it take, is it philosophy? Is it operational? Do you have to have different people involved? >> I think it starts with a really clear brand mission. It's a sense, you know you've got positioning statements are still the main way of marketing. How you position your brand. And a lot of brands are now talking about more purposeful positioning and that kind of stuff but I still see, it's still a positioning. So I think that's where you have to start to say okay, what's your real brand mission? What are you going to go out and achieve in this world? What is it that you have to see? If you don't have a real big point of view, where you'd have to have a mission that you want to achieve, it's very hard to come up with given activations. So I think that's where you really have to start. >> What would be an example of a clear mission, and maybe one that's not so clear. Have you been involved in one where a company's changed from positioning to clear mission? >> Funny, I really don't see it happen a lot. So, for instance, I think Google is one of the clearest examples, right? They say, make, Information invaluable to all. Now and then that's their mission, but then if that would be a classical marketing company and that would be their positioning, they'd then start communicating about that. They'd start putting ads out there and start saying, Google is the best information provider on Earth. Check them out on Google.com. But they don't do anything like that, they just create products, that are actually making information available to all. They created Google maps, or Google Earth, or Analytics if you've got a business, right? So they just give you that information constantly. And that's why they're such a loyal fan base. So when Bing came along, there was no chance they'd get along because there's so many people have been given stuff by google over the years. So I think that's a really clear example. >> Hm. >> A good example, you know, but that's the annoying thing, it's always the same. Because there's not a lot of people doing it, well I think. So then Nike's another great example. They so, you know if you have a body, then you're an athlete. And what those guys then generally do is they say, okay if you're in the running team for >> They genuinely want to make you run. So they also do ads, I think it's also a mix, right? They can't, especially some companies, Google of course is easier because they get a lot of people coming through on their website every single day. But Red Bull as well did that, Nike does that. And so it's a mix of just advertising where you can get your awareness, get your awareness for your new product out there. But the way you really build brand love, I think, is by doing things for people, that people truly appreciate. And no matter how funny you think your ad is, that will never build a real loyal consumer, because they will not really love that. That's at least my philosophy. >> So for Nike it'd be the fuel band, >> Yes. >> Which actually helps you run, and maybe change you as a person. Right? >> Exactly. >> It transforms you at the end of the day. >> And that's a great example, because then you go online and you share how much you've been running that day. So, because they actually give you something of value, you'll want to go out and share that with others. So that's also a really clear indication if you've given something of value, they will share it. Well if it's interrupting, no one's going to share the new pop up that came by, right? So, it's a great way to see if you're doing the right thing. >> And if I look at your brand Red Bull and I've written a case study on the company >> You seem to think if it's about a carbonated, semi-carbonated drink, it's about sales, distribution, maybe advertising. But really at that level, it seems like Red Bull's doing all kinds of other things, whether it's the Red Bull girls, the events, >> How is Red Bull differentiated in that space or brands like Red Bull? And what does it take to deliver on that? Because that doesn't seem to be easy to copy. >> I think the big difference is, why it's so difficult to copy, is first of all the mission. And then second, the organization has to be put in place. So if you get anything about Red Bull, it's about giving you wings, right. That's generally a commitment. A great example of that, I think, was when Felix Baumgartner jumped for the Stratos jump. And a friend of mine was at Cannes. And then they were going to give away the big prize. I didn't know what it's called, we never go to Cannes. And then they literally said, well, before we give it away, actually the winner should've been Red Bull with Stratos, but then they sent it, apparently mailed to the Red Bull head office and then the head office replied. I said this was not marketing. This was not a piece of advertising. We don't want to win this prize. And I think that's a great example of how Red Bull operates, because their genuine belief was can a man break the speed of sound? Can a man, by himself, that had never been done before, break the speed of sound? And only then, it is thought of what content can we create around that. So, it's another starting point to what most brands to, this thing, how can we get more awareness, how can we do this, how can we. They think from a giving-wings perspective as opposed to from a let's-sell-more perspective. So I think it's a huge, or it sounds small. It comes back to that question I asked that they said at the beginning. As opposed to how can you make them love you more. This is what can you do more. That would be a huge paradigm you said. Don't think people are just making that yes. And then second what you have to do is then put the organization in place who could do that. So there's a lot of internal resources that do that themselves. Because it's harder I think to get an advertising agency or you know to connect, to come up with something like that. because it will also be less genuine. Per se, right, so we don't come up with it ourselves and then all execute it ourselves. And that's the beauty, if you've got a really brand with a really clear mission and that single brand, company, you can hire people that all are the brand. And all the other stuff becomes so much easier, right, 'cause your social media becomes more authentic, all your events become more authentic, because it's people that live the brand that do it. If you compare that with brands like, companies like Unilever or Proctor, Where basically people move around between these brands. It's much more difficult to create something like that. So those brands will have to, or those companies will have to do something about that, I think, to kind of create that real love for that brand internally, before it can come out externally. >> So this brand bank account, most companies don't have the luxury to rehire people, >> How would you implement this? What would you do with it? Especially on the experience side, how would I use this concept in practical terms? >> Yeah. So I think also, one that is really important, is to not think of your, the people that you're doing it for, in terms of data, or consumerism. I always think that's very important that that's also >> Very much, you know, over hype the whole data thing because what essentially has happened because people are harder to reach, because they are more spread out (they are not on tv or magazines anymore) we use data to track them down. While that kind of makes you lose the connection with who they actually really are and what they love doing. Again, if you take the Nike example They've got a knife running team so they define their consumers as runners. They don't go 15 to 49 housewife, ABC, those kind of terms that most companies thought. They think, what could we do for runners? So, if you think of experience, you have to think of the group of people that will enjoy that experience. And as you just mentioned the BMX for Red Bull In that case, we thought, we talked to BMX and said, okay, what do you guys need? What do you want? And they go, well, we don't have enough dirt spots to ride on. Okay, well, let's make that happen. So it's a great example of defining a group of people that is actually a group of people, that love to play tennis or love to play As opposed to, you know, as an age bracket or a, I think you've mentioned that in your case, right? There's a Prince Charles versus, what was it- >> Ozzy Osbourne. >> Ozzy Osbourne. Exactly the same age, probably- >> Not very different people. [LAUGH] >> Both well on money, so, probably mean the same but very different people that loved very different things. And I guess if I took this, what you just mentioned, taking your bank accounts example and deposits and withdrawals. If you make enough deposits, you don't actually make any more withdrawals. It's your customers who then make the deposits. >> Yes, they start doing it for you. And I think it's inevitable, and that's why. It's obviously also very inspired by the Emotional Bank Account from Stephen Covey. You know who also says in every relationship, there will be withdrawals and there will be deposits. So that's why it's important. The more strong a relationship is, like with your bank for instance, the more withdrawals there will be. Because you'll always be annoyed sometimes. You're abroad and they block your credit card again. But you know you have to be so the more connected you are with your customer the more you'll have to give them, because there will inevitably be withdrawals. >> Yeah I think anybody who's a frequent flyer on an airline knows that your most trusted airline is the one that has the most opportunity to mess up. >> Yeah yeah. >> Which actually raises the game and I think it's a very powerful way of thinking about it. >> Yeah. >> Because we tend to forget that >> Good relationships actually have many, many more bad occasions because you have so many more interactions. >> Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So the more interaction you have the more there will be bad >> Well, thank you very much for this conversation. I think it's a new accounting method that I can highly recommend to any business [MUSIC]
